Podcast Star Connor Ratliff – Long Read interview!

Well hello there Connor Ratliff! Here we are connected across the globe. Do I find you in good spirits?

Yes. It’s a rainy day in New York today.

Apt for your virtual trip to Scotland today. I suppose my first question would be, what’s bringing you to Edinburgh this year? Why is this the year for you to cross the pond with not just one but many shows?

Well, you know, Griffin (Newman – co-host of Blank Check podcast) and I have been doing shows in New York for…I think we’re closing on a decade now, doing the George Lucas Talk Show. We’ve toured it a little bit, but during the pandemic when we were locked down, it became a livestream and we started doing much more. It began as a monthly show at UCB Theatre in New York, which at the time felt like the right amount. We were all very busy with other things, and once a month felt like the right amount of dressing up like George Lucas and Wato and playing pretend.

Then we did about 300 hours of livestream on Twitch during lockdown because we had nothing else to do. We were raising money for charity and causes. So, it sort of just became these super long shows. It was a release valve for us instead of losing our minds all week. We would have this time on Sunday nights when we could just go crazy. I think on the other side of that, there was an appetite to see what else we could do and where else we could take the show.

Since then we’ve toured it a little bit. We’ve done a lot more live shows in other places beyond New York. So last year I was sort of thinking, well, what else could we do? I’ve always wanted to come to Edinburgh and do something at the Fringe, and I came up with this play idea that I thought could be a thing that we could bring to Edinburgh.

It felt like an ambitious, fun thing that we hadn’t done before, which is that we could bring our comedy talk show but also bring this sort of work of art that we were wanting to play around with. And, you know, it feels like a good moment to travel and experiment and try different things we haven’t done before.

Plus, you know, Griffin and I are both working actors and in that job, you’re at the mercy of anyone else in terms of doing what you want to do, the kind of things you want to do. So I sort of wrote it as a showcase for Griffin and me to do a kind of acting that we don’t always get to do when we’re doing improv or comedy shows.

Yeah, absolutely. And how have you found preparing, you know, to bring the new show over? Have you just gone about it as in any other show, or have you been thinking about the audience you’re gonna be playing to? Or is that not a consideration?

To some extent, we won’t know necessarily until we start doing the run. Like whenever we take the George Lucas Talk show, which we’re doing four times this August, that’s different everywhere we go. And every audience is different, even in New York. We’ve now done enough that we have a following of people who come, but there’s always people who show up who don’t know what it is. We always ask at shows like, “Who here has no idea what this is?” There’s always a couple of hands, people who friends have dragged them along, or they’ve read something about it, someone recommended it to them. But there’s always someone who at first is completely bewildered as to what this is.

And that is fun.

It’s always that thrill of live performing, you know, you’re meeting the audience, each audience, you’re meeting for the first time, and to go to an environment like at the fringe where people, you don’t know if someone is on their eighth show of the day, or if you’re the first thing they’re seeing or the last thing they’re seeing, or the only thing they’re seeing, you know, and you don’t know if they’re in a good mood, a bad mood. They might be on the verge of falling asleep, and your challenge is to keep them awake, you know? Or they, you know, it’s to me, so much of my experience over the past decade has been doing improv at Upright Citizens Brigade and various other theatres, and you learn to not take for granted. You don’t even know what the show is going to be, so you can’t plan for anything. So to some extent, bringing a fully produced and rehearsed play, that’s a different thing because you always, you know, with improv or with the George Lucas talk show, you always have a different expectation because people know you’re making it up. So if it’s there, there’s a different feeling. It’s sort of like at a comedy theatre, improv versus sketch. In an improv show, people are just relieved if it’s any good at all. There’s a baseline of “Don’t embarrass me as an audience member” feeling of like, “Oh, thank God. I don’t have to feel tremendous embarrassment for the people on stage.”

One time I did a play, it was a very emotional, intense play. Halfway, like five minutes into the second act, I remembered that I had turned the lights on in my car because it had been raining. When I was driving to the theatre, it was dark. It was a matinee, and I thought, I don’t think I turned the lights off because it was dark and cloudy when I started driving and it was bright and sunny and the rain had gone away by the time I got to the theatre. And I thought, I bet I didn’t turn my lights on, which means my car is dying. And that’s all I thought about for the whole second half of the play, even though it didn’t affect the performance at all. There’s a part of me that really hates that, that you can sort of get to a point where you’re just a well-oiled machine. What I aim to do as an actor with this show is to try to bring that same spirit of always feeling alive.

I want it to feel as new on our 22nd performance as it does on our first one, you know? Yeah.

So specifically when it came to putting the play together, where did you begin?

I had a notion. I knew the basic shape and vibe of what I wanted it to be. For the first pass, I treated it as if I was improvising the play. I would go scene by scene, deciding what worked and what didn’t. When I’m writing, I don’t worry about whether something needs to be in the play, but rather if it’s true. In later drafts, I realized that 80% of what the characters are saying is what they’re thinking, and you don’t actually need to hear it. But I’m glad I wrote it because now I know. Now I can have someone say, “How do you do?” and they really mean this whole long speech that I did need to write. It’s like building a building, where the first thing is all these steel beams that hold the building up.

Have you come up with any particular way to market your trip to Edinburgh and the show? Do you have any ideas for standing out amongst the 3000 plus other shows?

Part of it is thinking of fun ways to catch people’s attention. You can’t rely solely on word of mouth because someone might like it and not spread the word. It’s challenging because everyone wants to be the show that people are talking about. Ultimately, it’s in the hands of the audience and what they respond to. They have the power as a hive mind. If you’re the show that everybody likes, it’s beneficial because everyone will talk about it. However, I can also see us being a show that a small but passionate percentage of the audience tells everybody about. We are a couple of weird Americans bringing over a show that is adjacent to very popular things. It’s interesting because when I started doing the George Lucas show at UCB Part of the idea behind the George Lucas show was that it would catch people’s attention because of George Lucas’s name recognition. However, we found that our audience included people who may have known who George Lucas was but didn’t particularly care. They came to the show because they heard it was funny. It’s interesting how our show has attracted fans who have been coming for years, and occasionally someone will come and say, “I finally saw a Star Wars movie.”

They’ve been attending our show monthly for years, and now they process Star Wars through the unique lens of our show. It’s fascinating to consider what makes our guests interesting when viewed through the prism of George Lucas and his significant impact on the culture. His influence extends beyond just the movies he made, as he has left his mark on the way movies are made and has influenced various aspects that you may not even realize.

Griffin and I are determined to be visible during our time at the fringe. We want to attend other shows, make appearances, and be a fun presence within the festival. It’s not just about showcasing our own work, but also immersing ourselves in the vibrant atmosphere and discovering what else is happening. Festivals like Edinburgh create a unique dialogue amongst different performances. You might see a play that’s bizarre and wild, and another that’s serious and solemn, yet they can complement or contrast each other in fascinating ways. Every individual who attends the festival will have a distinct experience, and our goal is to contribute a distinct flavour or seasoning to their fringe experience. We might bring something slightly different or serve as an intriguing and peculiar curiosity. At best, we hope to be something much more, whether that’s making people laugh, inspiring thoughts, or evoking unconventional sensations. It’s important to note that there’s no single correct way to react to the work we’re presenting.

The talk show has definitely evolved over the years, and you’ve been adaptable and versatile in your approach to it. So this decision to do a play aligns with your ongoing exploration and experimentation with the show’s format.

Yes, exactly. It’s not like we’re suddenly shifting to producing plays regularly. It’s more of a new venture for us to try and see how it fits. I’m mentally prepared for the possibility of it being a disaster because you have to be realistic and acknowledge that sometimes a show doesn’t connect with the audience. However, most of my stage experiences over the past decade have been successful. Occasionally, things go completely off the rails, and while that doesn’t bother me as long as no one gets hurt, it’s not something to be scared of. There’s nothing to fear as long as everyone leaves the theatre unharmed and intact.

Now obviously the talk show is, has evolved over the years you’ve been doing it. You’ve kept adapting it and you’ve kept versatile with how you’ve approached it. So I suppose this is really just, uh, it is very in keeping with how you’ve gone about the show over time. You just keep finding new ways to find a new shape for it.

Yeah, and part of the reason that we decided to do a play is that it’s a thing we haven’t done before. We’ll see how it feels. I’m fully prepared emotionally for it to be a disaster because I think you have to plan for that kind of thing. I know very talented people who have taken a show out and, for whatever reason, people do not connect to it. But, you know, most of my time on stage has been successful. Yes, over the past decade or so. But every now and then, sometimes it’s your fault, sometimes it’s the audience’s fault. Every now and then you have a show that goes completely off the rails, and it never bothers me as long as, as long as, uh, no feelings are hurt. As long as it’s not something, as long as everybody, you know, walks out of the theatre in one piece, there’s really nothing to be scared of, you know? No, no. I, you know, the funny thing is at the end of the run, I’m doing these four one-person shows as George Lucas, which is not something I’ve done in New York. It’s not something I’ve workshopped. Sure. Part of it was that scheduling-wise, we could only do the play up to the 24th. Sure. And we had these last four slots. Yeah. And I just didn’t want to give them up. No. Because I thought if it’s going well, I’d hate to leave early and lose the momentum of that final weekend. If people are enjoying what we’re doing, then I think it’ll be very exciting to do these complete high-wire acts of doing four shows as George Lucas with no framework, no guests, nothing, except what I’m gonna bring to the audience and what the audience is gonna bring back to me.

I thought if the show’s going well, I’d hate to waste that energy. And I thought if the show’s not going well, then what do I have to lose by doing four more shows? If anything, it would be, uh, in the worst-case scenario, this will be a fascinating penance for me to do at the end of the run, these one-person shows. Um, but I’m optimistic. I know that everything in live performance, like, because I feel it in New York, the post-pandemic period is still in a recovery phase. Not everybody has fully come back, and there are people who are still hesitant. But I think part of it is, rather than waiting until the audience is 100% ready, you have to bring them back. You have to give them a reason to come back. And I think bringing exciting things to a theatre is important to make people want to rebuild this thing. I have felt it in New York that when things opened back up, there was a burst of initial excitement to be back. And then there was a period where that settled down to a more normal energy and you could feel like, “Oh, we’re not 100% yet.” But it’s better now than it was a year ago, and I think it’ll be better a year from now. People realize that the live experience is such an essential thing, both for performers and for audiences to be able to go. You can access the history of cinema on a dozen different devices that you have, which is a miraculous thing. You can watch Citizen Kane on the bus. We are in the future. But there is still something about going into a room with an audience of people. One of the things that I really appreciate is the social aspect of laughing. It’s baffling to me, but it’s just undeniable that I don’t know anybody who laughs as hard when they’re by themselves as they do when they’re in an audience with other people who are also enjoying something. Because when you witness certain animals that sort of call out to other animals in the forest, they’ll all make one noise, and they’ll all make the noise. That’s what we do when we see something funny in an audience. One person laughs and we all laugh. It feels good in a way that watching something funny and nodding along at home is not the same sensation.

And do you find your George Lucas character is somehow stuck to you now?

Not at all! I could stop at any moment. I don’t feel any obligation to continue. It’s not one of those things where people are clamoring for it, so I must do it. We have an audience of people who’d be sad if I stopped doing the show. Yeah. But you know, there have been several points where I’ve thought, should I stop doing the show? And I’m glad we didn’t because usually just beyond those points. Um, and you know, that’s not a coincidence because usually anytime I’ve had a point where I thought, have I done this enough? That’s usually been the point where we think of some new way of doing it or something to make it more fun.

I think that would be the reason I would stop doing it if we got to a point where I thought there isn’t another left turn to make into a fun, new direction. I think, um, certainly like our version of George Lucas has sort of melted and changed, and we reshaped it. It’s even within a show, I’ll usually start out with a fairly accurate George Lucas, and then within five minutes, it won’t sound like him because, you know, he’s not the most dynamic speaker. You have to start adding your own things. He’s not a forward-facing creator in that way. He’s not a showman, which is part of the joke of the show is that we’re taking someone who is essentially a behind-the-scenes person and putting them into a personality-based, charisma-driven medium.

Has George Lucas ever reacted at all?

We don’t have anything like a note from him or anything, but every indication we’ve gotten from his side of things is positive, even just the fact that we’ve never received a cease and desist order. There were times we were at Sketchfest in San Francisco, which is the closest we’ve been to being able to try and book him on the show, but our show was a Friday night show that started at 9:30, so we didn’t have a chance. It’s already a big ask to get someone to come on the show, especially when they’re in their seventies, super successful, and don’t have to do a show that starts late.

But we did get a note from them that showed they had thought about it. George Lucas has always responded positively to parody and has a good sense of humour about it. He appreciates comedy and encourages it, even if it’s at his expense. He doesn’t take Star Wars or any of his things too seriously. To some extent, the fact that he’s been developing this museum called the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art for over a decade is a running thread of the show – it’s supposedly due to open in 2025 now!

We talk about it on the show so much that there are people who find out it’s a real museum after thinking it was a joke. We even made a song and an animated music video about the museum, which got retweeted by the Lucas Museum’s Twitter account. That’s a vote of confidence, in a way. While I don’t believe George is running their socials, the positive response somewhere in the chain goes all the way up to him. I don’t think he personally searches his name on YouTube, considering his other commitments and demands.

George can be incidental to the show in a way that Tom Hanks couldn’t really be with Dead Eyes!

That’s right. We’re not actively seeking out George to get on the show. Given the occasional madness the show descends into, I could imagine him stumbling upon it during one of our charity watch-alongs and not realizing it has anything to do with him. Yes, the Tom Hanks connection through Dead Eyes does put me two degrees away from Lucas, as Tom has worked extensively with Steven Spielberg. In some ways, I’ve gotten closer to George through Dead Eyes than through my George Lucas Talk Show.

All roads lead back to Tom for you. And I noticed you were one of the narrators on the audiobook of Tom’s new novel, The Making of Another Major Motion Picture Masterpiece!

It was an unexpected treat to be a part of that. The book, which fictionalizes the making of a movie, has sections about an actor getting fired. I was cast to read the section about the actor who takes their place, which was a clever bit of casting. I had actually read the book before they offered me the audio book role, and I enjoyed it. I thought it would have made for a great episode if it had come out earlier, as we could have explored the book and looked for clues and references like a DaVinci Code treasure hunt.

I’d have been like, “Is this based on me?!” But he has been so lovely beyond the interview and in our interactions since. He’s been completely kind and generous with his time and thoughts. It’s gratifying because I never expected him to hear about it, let alone have a positive opinion. Every interaction with him feels like a perfect punctuation mark on the experience. The audiobook was like a second exclamation mark. It’s been a perfect experience so far.

With all your projects, has the road of Dead Eyes reached its natural punctuation, or do you think you’ll go back somehow?

My original plan was to gradually move away from the connection to Tom Hanks and Band of Brothers. Each season would have fewer episodes related to them. Season one was mostly focused on them, season two had a few, and season three was almost half unrelated. I wanted the podcast to evolve, so by season five or six, maybe only one episode per season would tie into Tom Hanks or Band of Brothers.

The hope was that people would enjoy the podcast for what it was and not be concerned about an ongoing narrative. It’s like the X-Files, where you stop worrying about what happened to Mulder’s sister and focus on the monsters of the week.

When planning for a fourth season, I realized it was trickier because it still needed a new arc. I have plenty of ideas for individual episodes, but they don’t necessarily need to be part of a specific season. The timing doesn’t matter much since there are already fans who were only interested in the original concept. Some people ask about the fourth season, but it’s been over a year and my producers now have other commitments.

If we were to come back, it would have to be different, possibly more casual and less polished, like a casual conversation rather than a highly crafted podcast.

It had a very polished feel. It felt very loved.

We would go through every syllable of the podcast and make sure it was, you know, and I don’t know if we would do that unless we were like, “This is perfect. This is it.” Yeah. Um, but there’s also a part of me that, as time goes by, you know, one of the things…

We had this thing, partly as a joke, partly serious, which was, could we get a Peabody Award? And I was just so tickled by the idea that a podcast could receive such a prestigious cultural recognition. I thought, “Could we actually get a Peabody Award?” And one of the critics who named the show the best podcast of last year….They were on the Peabody jury, so I thought, maybe we have a chance. I thought we had a shot with the World War II episode. I thought, “This is serious enough.” My commentary on that particular episode was well received, but we didn’t get it.

Then I thought, maybe the Tom Hanks episode would have a chance. Maybe Tom Hanks could get us the nomination. But that same critic who loved our show and was on the jury has written multiple times in New York Magazine about how it has the perfect ending, and that it’s over.

I thought, well, if we get a Peabody nomination, I could use it as an excuse to come back and say, “Oh, we got the nomination.” And if we don’t get the nomination, I could say, “Well, we have to keep going and try again.”

Ultimately though, not getting the nomination had the opposite effect. It made me think, maybe we shouldn’t come back. I can’t imagine that with the ideas I have now, a new season would surpass the third season. Until I have that feeling or unless I’m desperate for an additional source of income, I would probably be more likely to create another podcast before considering a return to Dead Eyes. Right now, it just feels like there’s a sense of closure and satisfaction with how it ended.

What some people have identified as a “perfect ending” was really never intended to be a series finale. I just haven’t cracked what the 4th season should be, and maybe I never will.

And now you have Edinburgh to look forward to. Who knows what comes off the back of that?

I do feel like the reason for continuing it was always about other people’s stories. The podcast was about shifting the focus from me. We would use a comedic version of my narcissism, and then we would flip it to highlight other people’s stories. It was about having it both ways, emphasizing both me and other people. Many of the ideas I have for other episodes revolve around interesting stories of other individuals. But I don’t want to be solely known as the failure detective who dwells on embarrassing disappointments. I don’t want that to be my brand.

And when it comes to Edinburgh, what’s in your mind? What, what are you hoping for? What, what does your perfect Fringe run look like?

I know it’s going to be exhausting. My hope is that it’s the good kind of exhausting. I’m really looking forward to that feeling of going into theaters as an audience member and enjoying the overwhelming amount of great stuff. I love the idea of just soaking it all in.

At the same time, I’m excited for that energy to inspire us to make our shows worthy of being a part of that mix. We’re working hard to ensure that we’re bringing something that feels valuable and worth people’s time.

We want it to feel like we came from New York and brought this unique, weird thing. It’s an opportunity for us to try something new and be particularly excited about it in a new place with an audience experiencing us for the first time.

As performers, coming in fresh is the most exciting thing about theatre and live performance. Each show has a different audience, even if it’s mostly the same people. There’s always someone new who has never seen it before. So bringing something new and fresh is important.

My hope is that at the end of the run, I’ll be sad that it’s over while also feeling like we gave everything we had. I want every show to be a chance for us to leave it all on the stage. We’ve travelled and put in great effort to do this, and I want each show to feel like we accomplished what we came here to do.

Well, last question. When it comes to your own relationship with Star Wars, is it still there? Or as time goes by and Disney keeps releasing new movies, is that changing your relationship with the franchise?

To some extent, yes. Like everyone, I have my opinions about the new Star Wars content. There are some that I love, some that I like, and some that don’t resonate with me. But what I’ve realized is that if I were a kid now, I don’t know if I would be a Star Wars fan. It feels overwhelming with the number of movies and expanded content that you have to absorb to have a working knowledge of the entire franchise.

When I was a kid, it was different. The movies were coming out, and that was my main experience with Star Wars. It sparked my imagination, and I would create my own Star Wars world through drawings and playing with toys. I spent years immersed in my own Star Wars universe.

Now, as I dress up and pretend to be George Lucas on the show, I’ve transitioned from using action figures to embodying the character and interacting with people. So, in that sense, my relationship with Star Wars has evolved, but it hasn’t diminished my overall love for the franchise.

It’s sort of playing the same way, in a sense. This play is an extension of the kind of play and imagination that Star Wars sparked in me. It’s like George Lucas playing with the inspirations he had, like Flash Gordon and westerns, and creating something new. I wanted to do something similar, something that was inspired by Star Wars but had its own originality. So, in that sense, Star Wars is still a source of inspiration and fun for me.

I make it a point to go see every Star Wars film that comes out in theatres. It’s always an enjoyable experience, even if there are some movies that don’t resonate with me personally. In fact, one of the reasons I started doing a George Lucas impression in the ’90s was because I found it amusing how even his less well-received films could still be commercially successful and polarizing amongst viewers. I never got mad about it; I was always more fascinated by the choices he made.

The show, in many ways, is a tribute to the kind of fandom that surrounds Star Wars. It’s a celebration of the excitement and joy the franchise brought to our childhoods. We have a low tolerance for the angry, negative aspects of Star Wars fandom. Our show is about having fun with it, not tearing it down. So, if anyone is expecting us to be critical or negative about Star Wars, our show probably isn’t for them.

Absolutely. We’ve encountered very few instances where someone tries to be negative about Star Wars during our shows, and we treat them like hecklers. It just doesn’t mesh well with the positive and fun atmosphere we aim to create. I believe I have a very healthy relationship with Star Wars. As a middle-aged man, it shouldn’t be the sole focus of my life. I do comedy shows because that’s what I do, but I don’t spend all my time obsessing over Star Wars.

I want to clarify that it’s not a judgement on those who do focus on Star Wars extensively. Everyone has their own interests and passions. It’s just not the central focus of my life. Griffin and Patrick, who I perform with, are much more into Star Wars than I am. They immerse themselves in the fandom, attending events like Star Wars Celebration. Sometimes I’ll opt out of certain panels or activities because I don’t feel the need to be as deeply involved.

Exactly. There’s a difference between it being your job and it consuming every aspect of your life as a hobby. It’s about finding that balance and enjoying it in a way that works for you.

Some people have an all-consuming obsession with Star Wars, and there’s a small part of me that wishes I had that level of passion because that’s how I was as a kid. However, though I genuinely enjoy the new movies and shows like The Mandalorian, I find myself more obsessed with the museum George Lucas is making. I think I have as healthy a relationship with Star Wars as someone who frequently dresses up with George Lucas could possibly have

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