Last day of the Edinburgh International Book Festival and I didn’t quite know what to expect from Colm Tóibín and Philippe Sands discussing ‘Remembering the Dirty War’. It was high on my list of events at the Festival that I wanted to listen to, as Tóibín and Sands make for a formidable combination. I also hoped for some fun too, knowing the cheeky side of Tóibín is hard to keep in check. Mind you, the title wasn’t full of promise on that front.
Both men are sparky and with brilliant minds—Tóibín the writer and Sands the barrister and writer. They invited one another to explain their involvement in the Argentine military junta’s so-called ‘Dirty War’, where no rules seemed to apply, and unspeakable torture, violence and murders seemed almost routine. Tóibín, paid off from his previous job and wandering South America, spent his time listening to accounts of the atrocities from survivors and of loss from the loved ones of ‘the disappeared’ in court. Not surprisingly, he recounts all of this as if he had come straight from the courtroom, not after forty years. But he spares us the dreadful details, which I guess he will never forget.
Pinochet on Trial and Global Justice: ‘Remembering the Dirty War’
Sands recounted the process of Pinochet being brought to trial after an international arrest warrant was issued by a Spanish magistrate. Pinochet was arrested in London and sought immunity on the grounds of being a Head of State. This was decided by five High Court judges in, as Sands described it, a ‘penalty shoot-out’ situation of each judge giving their decision in turn and ultimately the decision relying on the final judge. Pinochet was refused immunity and therefore was to be tried.
Sands was asked to represent him but asked his wife for her opinion. She advised him to do as he felt right, but that if he agreed, their divorce papers would follow shortly. Despite the job of a barrister being to take each case as it is presented to them—just as in a taxi rank, a cabbie is not meant to refuse a fare—Sands turned it down. When offered to prosecute Pinochet instead, he agreed with his wife’s blessing.
“Both men are sparky and with brilliant minds—Tóibín the writer and Sands the barrister and writer.”
There ensued discussions about the state of the world right now and the danger of big gun nations—Russia, China and the States—wanting to get rid of another country being able to serve an international arrest warrant for serious international crimes such as genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. Sands reminded us however, that most countries are against this, but we should be vigilant nonetheless.
There was also discussion on whether ‘letting sleeping dogs lie’ rather than taking proceedings through court might help healing for victims and their loved ones more. There is no glib answer, but Sands stressed that ‘doing nothing’ was the worst possible scenario.
All very serious and absolutely fascinating stuff. Like me, I’m sure the audience would have listened to the two of them for hours, given half a chance. And did we get any levity from Tóibín? Yes, of course we did. An impersonation of Maggie Thatcher was darkly hilarious and his asides about the Catholic Church, Pope Francis, and his insistence on showing a close-up photo of Sands (100% Jewish, he told us) meeting the Pope and holding a Madonna figure were both serious and entertaining.
I won’t forget this discussion for a very long time and am very grateful to have been spared the graphic details likely still in both men’s heads.
Featured Image: Philippe Sands Author Pic c. Christian Andre-Strand
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