Interview: Nikhita Devi & Althea Young – Manipulate 2024

Nikhita Devi & Althea Young will present a double bill of their works-in-progress at this year’s Manipulate Festival. Beneficiaries of the SURGE bursary programme which supports artists at the cutting edge of physical and experimental theatre, street art and circus, this pair of young creatives will offer their audience two very different shows. The pair sat down with me to discuss their work, the tensions of the life artistic, and the role of art in the 21st century.

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Hello Nikhita and Althea, could we begin with introductions to you and your work?

Nikita: I’m Nikhita Devi, I was born in India but I grew up in Scotland. I’m a queer, neurodivergent, non-binary dance artist based in Edinburgh. My show, I Honeypot includes and is inspired by all of those elements. I’ve travelled back and forth to India for advanced training, experiencing competing cultural programming and identity and felt the tension lying between them. It’s this tension that runs through my work and life, growing up Indian in the UK, yet going back to India and being viewed as non-Indian. Without giving too much away that’s what the work is about.

Althea: Yes. So my name is Althea Young. I’m an interdisciplinary performance artist mainly functioning in this work as a choreographer. My past work has often used objects as characters, but in a way that is not directly puppeteered by a human. In 2022, myself and Sally Charlton made a children’s show Life of the Party which had a programmed disco ball and a smart stage light as characters. This idea of objects of characters is something I’m really interested in, and how they can be part of my work based on their own inherent traits or presence, as opposed to something a human performer brings to them.

In this work, HOVER, I’m doing a duet with a drone, that is piloted by my collaborator Sam Cogdon off-stage. So it’s just me interacting with the drone and we’re sort of exploring many different dynamics that we can find within that relationship from friendship to intimidation. I won’t say more and give too much away.

You both work very much at intersections, be it between cultures, identity and/or technology. Is this where you find the ‘new’ to bring to your audiences?

Nikhita: I would say that if you dig deep enough everything is at an intersection. In my studies of Indian classical dance, particularly the form that I do is that there’s this mythology in India that it has a pure and unbroken tradition or lineage for 2000 years. But when you start studying it and digging deeper, you find this odyssey fusing many other things. It has many influences from other art forms, from martial arts, folk dances, temple dances and so there’s nothing, I don’t think, that’s pure about anything. I think everything is an intersection.

I think that when you dig deeper, you see those intersections, you see the connections between one art form and others. So I don’t see anything revolutionary when fusing or integrating one thing with another. It actually feels very natural, and almost easy!

Althea: It’s funny how my practice has developed is although I work a lot with automated technology, I am very not tech savvy. I don’t know how to operate a drone or any of these things that I work with.

When we have experts come in and help us solve some technical issues, it’s my collaborator Joseph who’s really listening and taking it in. I don’t have the mind for it. That means I get to encounter these creatures, if you will, with the same wonder an uninitiated audience might do.

So I’m not necessarily going into the work I make with a strong opinion of technology, I’m entering into the worlds I create with something like a blank slate. What’s exciting about this for me, is that it’s really authentic, as opposed to working with a puppet directly controlled by another person.

When the drone flies at my face, it’s genuinely exhilarating, and when I’m on stage with it, it feels similar to being on stage with another dancer. So I think for me the potency contained in I, Hover, is seeing a human and non-human performer interacting. It can offer a really strong metaphor for our varying relationships with technology and each other: good, bad, love or hate.

Now you’re part of this year’s Surge Double Bill at the Manipulate Festival. Is the Festival something that’s been on your radar for a while?

Nikhita: Having been brought up in Glasgow and only recently moving to Edinburgh it hasn’t been on my radar a huge amount. I’m still figuring out the artistic environment here apart from the August festivals. This piece was, of course, supported by Surge in Glasgow, which works to promote street arts, physical theatre and circus. It was part of the bursary to develop I, Honeypot that it would be programmed as part of Manipulate.

I did more digging then, more investigation and the other shows and pieces being presented are so wide-ranging and so very interesting. The subject matters are thought-provoking I would say. I’m excited to be part of that, and it will be on my radar from now!

Althea: I have been aware of Manipulate, but I’ve not been involved with it ever before. I think as someone who doesn’t have a traditional theatre background or even a traditional physical theatre background, the fact that Manipulate and Surge are both open to really experimental new ways of working has given me access into that world to make something which is a piece of theatre and also super interdisciplinary. I’m thankful to be part of a festival that has such an open mind towards different art forms and different ways of working.

Do you find it inspiring or useful, or otherwise to be part of a festival, and the temporary assembling of so much diverse talent and outlook?

Nikhita: I think it depends on the melting pot. I think it depends on the amount of people, and the environment. In the last week, while I’ve been in Glasgow at Surge working on the piece, we’ve had some support from students from Edinburgh College of Art. I found their support invaluable: they’ve added a lot to the piece that I wouldn’t have been able to come up with myself.

Also recently Althea and I were part of a residency in Argyle. Were there about 30 to 40 people, all artists, just thrown together in this big country house. It was very overwhelming at first, but I think after a couple of days we kind of started finding a groove and finding the people that we resonated with.

So I think it’s really about finding the people that you’re on the same wavelength as because it could be that one person you vibe with and something amazing comes out of it. Other times you might only find friction, so yeah, it depends on the melting pot!

Althea: My most valuable interaction in this commission has been with my creative partner, Joseph. However, Surge provides space to a company called TechBox which will come and kind of help us with things. I couldn’t have foreseen the extent to which TechBox would help facilitate my project. So we levelled up the tech in this project far beyond what I could have imagined when we applied. It’s so lovely to have a relationship with technical artists who are keen to help and excited by what you’re doing as well.

Something else I’ve appreciated specifically concerning Manipulate is the massive team of largely women producers. The energy that provides is different from other other opportunities I’ve had! It’s really positive. I feel very much that everyone is on the same team, seeking to accomplish something great.

If we were to dig deeper into the making of each of your shows, I’d say there’s a huge regard for what it means to be human. What do you think it means to be a person in 2024? Life can seem so complex and messy these days, I’m not sure any of us have a clear vision.

Nikhita: That’s such a big question. I think you summed it up pretty well for me: ‘complex messiness’. For me, it’s being able to hold 2 opposing feelings and being able to reconcile them whilst just existing at the same time. That could be in your feelings towards a person, or event, or even a concept: loving and hating it at the same time. Perhaps you wake up in the morning, happy to be alive but still dreading the day to come.

It’s like feeling all of these feelings through our increased awareness of the world and what’s happening within it. Being aware of our privilege, feeling guilty for it but also glad about it.

Perhaps it’s just negotiating all these feelings, pulling you in different directions and managing to navigate it all by doing the dishes. Just normal, everyday human things, whilst the big questions and big picture swirls around.

Althea: Yeah that’s a massive question. I think our generation has been denied access to so many opportunities which previously framed a person’s understanding of what their life should look like. The opportunities to own property, or to have children for example. For a lot of people this would have been their plans for their lives.

So not only do we not have access to those experiences sometimes, but it also takes away the sort of pre-destined framework you used to be given for leading your life. I think within that there’s a huge amount of frustration and grief. However, I think the more I take on that grief and allow myself to experience it, I’ve realised there is an exciting opportunity to choose something different for myself.

So ok, if I’m not going to do those things, what do I do? I’ve found over the last few years that my work has helped me process this. I think when you kind of accept the loss of those things, you can rediscover your agency and get crazy with the available pathways. So for me, I think, my being human or being alive is a lot about trying to encounter joy in unexpected places. I really want to be an agent in how I choose to invent my way of life

However, some things never change, as young innovators in the arts, how are you reconciling the need to make work AND sell tickets?

Nikhita: For me, I don’t think there should be a compromise in what the artist makes.I think that’s what producers, marketing and the sales people are for. That’s their role and that’s their job.

I make something. I create something. I choreograph something and show that to the world and then it it gets accepted somewhere. The organisation that chooses the work then chooses how to market it and sell it to people.

Hopefully there’s been no compromise, even though I do think of the audience and who the work is for and who it might resonate with: that’s still a very important aspect of the work. But I’m not trying to make it commercial or sellable. I’m trying to make it authentic and honest.

I think that is what makes it sellable or makes it interesting for an audience.

I mean of course you get briefs, you get commissions and so you try and make something that fits within those. But for me, if I have one audience member in the crowd, that’s still someone. Like I have to pay my rent and buy my groceries and live generally. But I don’t want to sacrifice my art and my message because what I create is me. It’s the core of me being brought to the stage. To twist that into something else so it’s more commercially viable doesn’t feel right for me and that’s not it’s something I would struggle with.

But who knows maybe times in the future might get desperate: you can’t say never. I think it’s always walking a tightrope, keeping the audience in mind, but needing to make work that brings you happiness. If you’re performing something you gate time and again, multiple times for weeks in a row, then no one’s going to be happy, or at least you’re not.

Althea: I’ve struggled with this idea of being marketable, particularly as someone who chose to study one of the least marketable art forms. I think it’s part of the reason that I veil my performance art, if you will, in a sort of theatrical frame. Not just to make it marketable, but I think to make it accessible also. Because I do think marketability and accessibility sometimes go hand in hand in terms of getting bums on seats, getting people in to see your work who maybe wouldn’t see it if you said, ‘This is a radical experimental piece of performance art.’

So I think that, yeah, I’ve gotten really good at the elevator pitch and then and then not holding myself to creating the elevator pitch version of the work, but trusting that audiences want to see something complex and nuanced. Because I think also the idea of marketability can be quite patronising. Like it can assume that audiences who haven’t studied what you study don’t want to experience something complex or new.

But also I think I’m interested in offering audiences something that is actually political or actually moving, as opposed to just the idea of ‘political’ and ‘moving’. Like often we walk away from work and we think, That was really political because we understood what the politics of the work was.

Whereas I’m interested in work where they walk away and think, Oh, that moved me or made me uncomfortable or connected me to the body politic. But I’ve worked as only an artist for the last three years. I’ve really resisted any other work and in the last year I got a part-time job as a cheesemonger and this has changed

Bravo, cheese is wonderful in every respect…

It is wonderful! It’s really artistic as well, but it also means it’s taken this massive pressure off to make all my living from artworks which I think we can sometimes think has more integrity. But actually I found that I was bringing a lot less integrity to my work because it had to be a money-making endeavour. Whereas now that I have this thing to kind of create a financial bed for myself, it means that I’m only applying for things that I really care about.

My last point on that subject is that I think it is sad that opportunities are based 50% on how good you are at making work and I think 50% on how good you are at writing an essay that says what kind of work you’re going to make. That is like ableist and classist. For the gateway into this world to be about how good you are using words to paint a picture: something you’ve not even made, something that might be a completely nonverbal piece of work. So yeah, I have a massive privilege in terms of my education and being able to access these opportunities in the first place.

To pull us back to your shows for this year’s Manipulate Festival, and with this in mind, what do you think (or hope) audiences will be expecting before the show begins?

Nikhita: I think that’s a hard question to answer. I think they might just be expecting a little bit some nice dancing. They’ll be like, we can kick off our Tuesday evening with a bit of dance and then experience a mix of very light, and very weird, dark moments.

I suppose they might think, I know what dance is, even if they don’t know what Indian classical dance is, or I know what clowning is. Given it’s the Manipulate Festival, I’ll assume the audience knows what physical theatre is, but maybe they won’t expect the film elements I bring in or the journey that the character goes on.

Althea: I’m interested in what their expectation of encountering a drone in a theatrical space will feel like.

Because I don’t.

I don’t know that people realise quite how potent is until they’re around it. This may not true if you’ve encountered a drone before in close proximity, but I’m assuming that most of my audience hasn’t.

I hope that they are excited to see it, to see what me and it do together, the way that we play with proximity and and our bodies. And then I hope that they’re surprised by the life that it contains and the feelings that we have towards it and towards how it relates to me. Similarly to Nikhita, I have some elements in the work that I have not divulged in the copy, so I hope also there is some discomfort, surprise and excitement that they’re not able to predict.

Ok just to make things really hard, and take your time, but describe your shows in 5 words.

Nikhita: Give me a minute, I’m going to write them down, it helps me think…I would say satirical, light-hearted, ridiculous, dark and twisted.

Althea: What? I’m only two in!

No rush!

Althea: OK. Otherworldly sensory, abstract, visceral and alive.

Excellent, now to get a sense of your own artistic tastes, what was the last piece of performance art that received your seals of approval?

Nikhita: So I went to see Depeche Mode on Wednesday night: Incredible, incredible experience. That was just, Oh my God, I was standing and screaming and singing and screaming. Because Dave Gahan is 61 years old and he’s he’s been doing this for 43 years. He’s almost died several times, and he’s still giving it his all on stage, twirling and dancing and singing and having the time of his life.

He’s so uninhibited, so joyous and interacts with the audience. And that was so inspiring to me. I’m trying to channel that energy into this work. It’s just like ‘have fun on stage, don’t be afraid.’ So I’m going to have a good time, and as a result so will my audience!

Althea: I went to see Dark Noon at the Fringe and it was one of the most incredible things I’ve ever seen in a theatre, but I would say it’s a massive, ambitious piece of performance art. The acting style is crude intentionally, but it’s basically about the history of all the history of colonisation of North America in this really amdram style using live stream cameras and really DIY sets which they build as they go along. But it plays quite a lot with audience complacency and discomfort, particularly using a camera.

That’s something I am interested in, in this work, but hadn’t made the connection till now. Yeah, you’re just totally in it as an audience member in a comedic framing that sometimes turns dark and not so funny. That was a really, really powerful, special piece of work.

And my last question would be, as artists what does ‘success’ mean to you, for this showing at Manipulate, and in your careers more generally?

Nikhita: Success for me is continuing to make work that is really personal, really meaningful and having a supportive audience and a supportive network around me like Surge, the Manipulate Festival and everyone else that has helped me along the way.

Also I think inspiring other people, especially people in my community like immigrants, and theSouth Asian community to think about art as a career. I want people to think about art as essential to life and not just something you go and see a show once in a while.

Growing up, I was always told that having a stable career, being a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer etc was what was most important. So when I decided to become an artist and a dancer, I was met with a lot of like, ‘but what do you actually do?’ So that was quite tough.

I’m just like ‘This is what I do!’, there’s no more explanation needed. So I don’t struggle to explain myself to people who don’t understand, In the end, I just want to continue being myself, doing the work I love, and inspiring others to make art an integral part of their human experience, or even considering it as a valid career. That’s what success means for me.

Althea: At first I thought this was a really difficult question, but as soon as I thought about it I realised it’s quite simple for me.

Success as an artist is about moving something within myself and in my audience. Success is connecting with them. That could mean an audience who have come to my show. That can also mean connecting to and shifting something for the school kids and communities that I work with an make performances with.

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