2:22 A Ghost Story needs little, or no introduction. Danny Robbins’ play has been setting West End stages alight since August 2021. 5 transfers, and a slew of high-profile castings later, the show opened at the London Apollo Theatre this May 14th. Taking the role of resident sceptic Sam in this newest rendition of the bone-chilling yarn is renaissance man Clifford Samuel. A familiar face to fans of the Royal Shakespeare Company, and McMafia alike, Clifford was kind enough to chat with The QR and talk all things 2:22…
Hi Clifford, well safe to say, since the show opened, the reception’s been really great. How has your experience been on stage, and behind?
Oh, it’s been just the same. The cast has been amazing. The entire cast has just been so warm and engaged, and willing to be here and work on a brilliant play. I’ve been very lucky to have that, and the crew and creatives behind it all, are just as hardworking, diligent, and supportive of the entire piece. You can see why the show is constantly fresh. Every time.
Now, launching new plays that have a life beyond one season is notoriously difficult. It’s maybe never been harder. Do you think it’s just the right time, right place for 2 22, or do you think there’s something more going on that just keeps it coming back?
I think it’s a combination of both, but there’s something about the piece that keeps it coming back. I’m leaning towards the fact that it’s the cleverness of the play. Not just in the sense that it’s trying to trick everyone, but it’s more about how brilliantly Danny’s written it.
It grabs you from the very first scene. The title helps; the marketing of the show helps; But really, the writing is what any actor would like to be on board for. When you see something like this play, 2:22, it’s just meaty, and it’s an actor’s dream. A muscular text with brilliantly drawn characters.
Had you seen the play yourself beforehand?
I hadn’t, no. So that’s helped as well, especially when you’re playing Sam and you spend a lot of time driving the narrative. Whatever choices I make, are innocent.
I think that’s enviable. Now, you haven’t lacked for weighty roles in your career, but where would you say this ranks in your career bookings to date?
Highly! This goes for whatever the genre, whether classical or modern…it’s a complete package. 2:22 is one of my favourite pieces to work on. For a start you’re one of 4 leading roles , each are well thought-out, carefully drawn characters. You’re busy for the whole two hours!
Then there’s the show’s success. I’ve never shied away from it having been on before: it just shows how strong it is. Now I’m part of this exciting, robust piece of playwrighting.
Then you have to talk about the production: the whole thing which lovely director Matthew Dunster, has created along with designer, Anna Fleischle. They really take the play and turn it into a very tight, taught production.
I suppose from the technical side of things, their challenge is to make it all look very, very easy. Like swans with feet paddling furiously under the water, whilst everything above is serene, eerie, spooky and going ‘wrong’ in just the right way.
Yes, that’s exactly right. There’s a lot of hard work underneath to create the simplicity of the play and the speed of it, which is thrilling for the audience to watch. They don’t see the hard work, just the seamless effect.
When it comes to the cast, had you worked with any of them before, or is this new territory for you again?
Yeah, it’s new, but I have worked with Ricky Champ. We haven’t worked professionally, but we were at drama school together. Not the same year, but we were there. I always say, you know, between the three years of studying, Ricky was in my time. We trained at the same time, and I haven’t seen him for a while, but also, we haven’t worked together, and this is such a lovely reunion.
That’s fantastic! When it comes to your character, how much of yourself do you find in the character? You’re the sceptic of the pack, is that you, or something you’re acting out?
It’s another person altogether. I’d like to believe I can think very quickly like Sam does, but in terms of the scientific language he uses, that’s an enjoyable challenge to get that…to fully understand and learn it.
Let’s get to it then, do you believe in ghosts and the supernatural?
I’m not as much of a sceptic as Sam: I’m torn. There’s a scientific element to proving that it’s not real, but my leaning is towards the fact that I think as humans we have too much arrogance if we feel we’re alone in this world.
Excuse the clickbait question, but have you had any paranormal experiences of your own, or do expect to have one on the show?
No, but…there’s a funny moment happening quite few days in a row now on the show. One of the props that lovely Jaime Winstone has to use, a salad spoon keeps falling! The actual spoon keeps falling on its own off the table. It started off as a joke, we assumed it just wasn’t in place properly, but we’ve all seen it now! The salad spoon sitting in the salad bowl, and it keeps plopping out of the bowl willingly!
So whilst we’re trying to deliver quick speed dialogue, all our eyes are on the spoon, and checking a light isn’t about to fall on us! It’s getting a little bit art imitating life, imitating art.
The last thing you want is to end up as an episode of Uncanny for Danny!
The play within the play, within the podcast!
Now it’s obviously great to have a play with legs, that just keeps running. We want our theatres to thrive. However, whilst you’ve come in naive, as you say, do you feel there’s any pressure on the cast and crew to keep tinkering, and such with the play to keep it fresh?
No pressure at all, because it’s all about the writing, that’s the star of the show, and it always should be in my view; not so much the actor. That’s why we can always get different iteration, so now it’s Sam played by Clifford Samuel, not the other way around. It’s always Sam in the play, whoever’s in the role. That’s why we keep going.
The reason being, for me, is that the spirit of the actor, and their personality always adds another layer to the piece. Then, with the other three core members that they’re coming into it with, again, their energy, their nuances, and their quirks all add that other layer and freshness to it, naturally, you know?
Clifford: Like for me, it might be a tiny thing, but as a black man playing, Sam: I’m the first ever Black Sam. There’s a brilliant line in the play, which probably went from nothing in the past, but because it’s now me, there’s a real deeper irony to the message you find in it. You feel the whole room reverberate (but you’ll have to buy a ticket to find out why). That’s why I think the piece is always bringing in new actors, who bring their individuality to Danny’s work.
That’s fascinating, the sort of unlooked for outcomes, and blessings from constantly recasting a show without trying to make a carbon copy of what came before.
That’s good writing. Strong writers can never be conscious of orchestrating every little bit, they imbue the work with freedom. Then you bring your cast on board, and that freedom just gains another perspective.
Now you’ve got a long season ahead, spending many hours together. Do you anticipate a good time for all?
Yeah. Yeah, we are so lucky as we all get on. So that’s just helped lift the show, helped all our personalities. I’d say our spirits and personalities compliment each other, creating a very, very funny environment. It’s really joyful to be involved and, and to be playing in the West End in the summer is just any actor’s dream I would have thought!
And are there any bad influences in the cast? You know, anyone you have to be careful of keeping up to 5:00 AM so you wander in looking more sceptical than usual?
We all are! We take turns! Rather we’re equally naughty at various times. I wish I was being diplomatic, but I’m not.
Well that’s fair – sharing the load!
That’s the nature of this piece: it just brings out the funny, because when it goes quite dark then backstage we go quite funny to balance it out.
Now aside from spoon watching, do you have any favourite moment in the show?
Hmmm, I’ll try to think without giving any spoilers! I think when we’re the four of us are together. This again goes back to the writing, when we have this overlapping sequence. There are two conversations happening at once, in one room, overlapping, and getting the information out to the audience. It’s really thrilling, because when it works, which is 99% of the time, you know it. It’s all four of us just dancing verbally, seamlessly…it looks so easy, and you can hear it working, you know you’re pulling it off brilliantly. It’s thrilling, I’m sure that goes for the audience to.
And, have you enjoyed your audiences so far Clifford?
Yes! Yes! They are always so different. There is a collection of moments in the play where, you know, the right reactions will happen. But apart from that, every show is informed by its new audience, and they, they take something different each time. Yes there’s some punchlines, but we can’t pause to take a laugh, because they might not! They might just enjoy it quietly, and not always be vocal.
This is brilliant, because we’ve rehearsed the whole play without plotting in any gaps or pauses for laughs. You learn on the night, when an audience stops you in your tracks, having decided collectively to find this thing funny, you have to wait!
So coming to my last question Clifford. You’ve been on all the screens, big and small; you’ve been on the big stages, you narrate audiobooks…so what’s next?
With my team, I’m hoping to move back to screen, and there are a few projects in development. I also write children’s books, I’ve got a second in edit at the moment, coming out later this year, or early next. There are plans for a book launch in London, at a lovely Kid’s department book shop; I’ll do some readings. The plan is to get a trilogy of my books to go. So promoting next book, focussing on screen, but always available for more great theatre.
Are you musical at all?
Clifford: Yes, I am. I haven’t delved into it fully, but yes I’m musical, but I haven’t done musicals. So no one will ever know because I’ve not done it. Or rather, I haven’t been seen to do it yet.
I was just thinking that if you write your children’s book, narrate your children’s book, and write a theme song for the children’s book, you’ll be the Dennis Waterman of children’s books.
That’s not bad at all! Can I please take that? I’ll send commission your way. I’ll work on my lyrics, my books… it’s my new homework for Summer!
